tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2345202358783241386.post236868235322926763..comments2023-08-15T09:20:12.403-07:00Comments on Pesach Sheini: Does Modern Orthodoxy Have a Future?Pesach Sommerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05429802587338023317noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2345202358783241386.post-4011279545504215142014-06-09T16:00:20.055-07:002014-06-09T16:00:20.055-07:00not sure if rybs is an offshoot of yeshivish, or r...not sure if rybs is an offshoot of yeshivish, or rybs approach was always part of the mainstream yeshivish.<br />also, rybs was not an idealist, but a pragmatist. he didnt believe in a university education per se, or women learning gemara per se, but only that given the state of the world today this is what is necessary. big difference.<br />as an aside, who cares what rybs believed or not at this point? isnt it mostly academic at this point?<br />agree on most other points.<br />Leibowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546115435280030672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2345202358783241386.post-58394613804509427122014-06-09T09:16:13.126-07:002014-06-09T09:16:13.126-07:00Mod-O's battle isn't about rational philos...Mod-O's battle isn't about rational philosophy vs mysticism. RYBS's MO is an offshoot of yeshivish which differs only from the rest of yeshivish in valuing secular knowledge for more than pragmatic reasons. While R' Hirsch was a rationalist, he was also a student of the Zohar (Qabbalah as symbol system). But neo-Orthodoxy was more a valuation of western culture, and not wasn't defined by either. MO also has room for those who study the mysticism of a Rav AY Kook.<br /><br />(Sorry, but RNS's "Rationalist Judaism" blog has me frustrated with people who use these terms in such blurry ways they mean anything. And then proves the applicability of one definition to some discussion but then derive further conclusions based on applying another.)<br /><br />Anyway, MO needs to provide some religious reason to stay affiliated because its ideology doesn't provide the same social barriers to assimilation that chareidim have. No deep attachment to a uniform, nor to a specialized dialect, exclusively listening to our own music, etc...<br /><br />However, the problem is more fundamental. Western culture's valuable contributions to humanity fade further into the background of its own daily life (eg Three's Company went from being a test case for the FCC to being fodder for the family nostalgia cable station). So there is less and less "derekh eretz" to be gained by refusing those social barriers. If mada is only available in the ivory halls, then we don't need to participate on a daily or cultural level to maximize access.<br /><br />Aliyah is another factor, as you note.<br /><br />As is the number of yeshivish mechankhim in MO schools.<br /><br />And the HSs do less to inspire, relying on the "year in Israel". Meanwhile, a not-so-subtle message of the year-in-Israel phenomenon in that religion is not to be found in a sacred application of this world as in a retreat from this world to that of the yeshiva.<br /><br />But I think my first issue is the biggest. Other than our natural desire to see our offspring follow our values, do we have a real reason to further MO in the next generation? Or is it out to solve a problem that is less and less applicable to actual American life?micha bergerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11612144735431285113noreply@blogger.com